And Greta isn’t the only person claiming that they did awful, abusive, hateful things. Chris Smalls got it, too.
Chris Smalls gave a chilling interview with Amy Goodman where he basically said that the Israelis treated him worse than he’s been treated in his entire life as a black man in America. That’s saying a lot.
The full interview.
Yes, but you and I have to organize in our communities where we live
That commenter said “we”, not “I”.
Are you saying that we—collectively—don’t bear any democratic responsibility for the people that we elect to office? Or are you cynically implying that the original poster has no power over the situation?
I don’t get the sense that you’re trying to attack that person, but what do you gain from public displays of cynicism to remind people that they are powerless?
If nothing then please reconsider. 🙁
It’s a sad case of “hurt people hurt people”.
The irony (for anyone not clear on it or not catching it) is that the Israeli military forced the captives to wrap themselves in the flag of Israel—which prominently features the star of David—so that soldiers could take pictures of them that could be circulated to humiliate the activists.
Where else have we heard of people being forced to wear the star of David so that everyone could point and laugh and humiliated them?
Israeli soldiers are so eager to “tea bag” their enemies with their own flag that they’re unable to see the irony.
There is an Oscar winning film that depicts (in part) the Romani inclusion in the Holocaust: Son of Saul (2015).. The lead actor is Romanian (which, I know is not the same) who plays a Jewish main character, but the film itself directly contains scenes of the Sinti and Roma inclusion in the camps.
There are also several other good films that depict the Romani aspect of the Holocaust—even one whose name quite literally the same point you (correctly) made: A People Uncounted (2011).
Some others:
You completely misunderstood my point or have lead clogging your ears.
How many facts are enough facts? Mm? All the facts? Not a single fact missing, not a single rock left unturned before reaching a conclusion?
At what angle does the sun have to reach before you conclude it’s daytime? Do you need it to reach its peak, at noon, and feel the warmth on your skin? Does it need to completely dip below the horizon for you to concede a day has passed? Of course, at that point you’ll surely say, “Ah ha! See! The sun is no longer in the sky and so it is not daytime!”
It seems that you believe conclusions only arrive from deduction. That’s a cowardly way of rolling about in this world, since all your conclusions must be guaranteed rather than reasoned through logical inference.
“Sensible”—ha! Thinking by “sense” alone squanders the powers of reason wherein conclusions may be formed at the risk of not yet being fully grounded in immediate observation, which is how I can confidently infer—despite the thorough stone turning upon which you’d undoubtedly insist—that you are not a sex-haver.
For those of you doubting the claims for lack of evidence, stating that you’ll “wait for the facts” or evidence before allowing yourslf to be outraged—
Where is your outrage for the countless other people who were there who personally testified to being beaten, abused, and paraded around like trophies?
There are already multiple interviews with Chris Smalls, a black American labor organizer, who directly confirmed that he had been beaten, choked, packed like a sardine into a small cell, sleep deprived, strip searched, and completely brutalized by the Israeli navy and prison system.
Ask yourself—why does this need to have happened to the appropriately aged, white, European female on a 4k, live streamed or recorded feed with corroborating testimony by the Israelis and the national newspapers of the country of origin of the supposed victim—why is that the bar you’ve set for credulity?
What does that say about you or your reaction to the situation?
Wake. Up.
Fuck the details, fuck the squabbling over what constitutes “roughness” versus physical assault. Fuck the inclination to want to hear “the other side” of the story. Things are going horribly wrong in Israel/Palestine—in a place that we’ve all been told over and over is supposed to be demonstrably above reproach. If even half these claims are true—if even a single one of them is true—what GOOD is it preserving the supposed beacon of democracy in the middle east when they treat foreigners this way?
Even if you think these activists are mentally unwell, or menaces, or being performative, or just doing this for “selfies”—so what? We all know these activists are obviously not terrorists and at least some of them genuinely believe what they are doing. None of this justifies their treatment. Nothing justifies the richest and proudest countries on earth—however much you might agree with that claim—what GOOD is that if our prisons condemn people to absolute squalor and abandonment to the whims of their guards?
HOW is this any different from the indignity camps? These peoples possessions were seized as trophies , their clothes taken, their bodies crammed together like chattel. Do there need to be ovens for there to be discernable lines? Must you feel the radiant heat on your own brows before you’ll indulge the sensation that something isn’t right here?
Wake. Up.
You’re being intentionally obtuse and stacking edits onto your initial comment to belabor an awful, specious argument.
That you would continue to die on this hill, after conceding the point about dehydration, rashes, painful concrete surfaces, and degrading photography–
That you would call the activists liars, whilst Israel’s foreign ministry posts on X that all detained activists were “safe and in good health” and Israel’s commitment to the “dignity” of prisoners afforded by international law—
That you would weasel out on the smallest of words—“harsh” treatment—while the Italian legal representation for the flotilla explicitly alleges multiple instances of both physical and verbal abuse against the activists in custody—
I think it speaks volumes to your (lack of) moral character. You know you are wrong. You’re tripling down on being a cynical asshole.
Get your head on straight, “mate”.
You’re being a cynical asshole. Even if you’re right, the way you phrase it is so needlessly abrasive that you won’t convince anyone of anything. You’re just airing out your shitty personality for everyone else to deal with, and it’s quite sad and concerning.
Get help.
Separate from that, the statements made in the email from the Swedish embassy that were sent to the Guardian don’t contradict the other flotilla activist’s claims. In fact, the embassy’s email at least partially corroborates the claims—depending upon how you choose to interpret Greta’s statement that she was being subjected to “harsh treatment”. At no point did the representative refute the claims.
I think a modicum of critical thinking would easily lend credence to the claim that <country that’s starving children and has sniped them in hospitals with quadcopters> might be abusive to an activist who’s attempting to defy their mission.
It’s equally reasonable to expect that an embassy would hesitate to repeat the claims/accusations without additional evidence so as not to cause any unnecessary diplomatic tensions, especially with Greta still being in custody.
But again, I wouldn’t expect someone exhibiting such a shining personality such as yourself to stop to consider that perhaps the representative was being diplomatic about what claims they were willing to repeat. You know—because assholes generally know fuck-all about when/how someone is being diplomatic.
oh i bet you’re fun at parties. 🙄
Lol, you’re just too illiterate to want to read anything longer than two sentences long.
Lazy fuck.