Mozilla's pivot to AI first browsing raises fundamental questions about what a browser should be.
  • DarkSpectrum@lemmy.world
    8·
    2 天前

    Waterfox is fantastic! I also self host searxng and have it set as the default search engine in waterfox. private search!

  • CerebralHawks@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    391·
    3 天前

    They have an interesting take. They’re not against AI per se, they’re against AI they can’t audit. It was an interesting read.

    The problem with forks such as Waterfox is that they don’t get fixes as quick as the mainline browser. But, this is also somewhat of a myth. When Mozilla fixes something in Firefox, they don’t push the update out to everyone right away. Some people don’t get it for days. Someone who uses a privacy-centric fork like Waterfox is going to be more apt to stay on top of the updates, so even if it takes a day or two for Waterfox to integrate the fix, Waterfox users are likely updating before a lot of Firefox users. And even then, the chances of the average user being affected by whatever is being fixed is typically low, so it’s better to have for browsing, but it’s not like something that is constantly threatening you — in most cases.

    That said, I use Firefox, and I was able to disable the AI stuff. Saw it, said nope, saw the option to disable, did so, and have been happy ever since. I don’t always agree with Mozilla, but, I have been curious about forks and I have used Waterfox in the past. It’s fine. It might be better, especially for “default settings” Firefox users, but for someone with a relatively low threat level and an intermediate to high skill in hardening browsers (my own assessment, subject to bias), I’m not particularly bothered by using regular Firefox. And if you’re subscribed to a Privacy community (or subreddit), you probably shouldn’t be, either, but then again, only you can judge your own threat level. There are certainly situations where something like Waterfox would be preferred.

    • MagnificentSteiner@lemmy.zipEnglish
      20·
      3 天前

      The new CEO isn’t talking about the AI that’s already in Firefox. He’s talking about more AI with greater integration.

      “Firefox will grow from a browser into a broader ecosystem of trusted software. Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions.”

      • khornechips@sh.itjust.works
        13·
        2 天前

        We here at $brand think your car should be more than just a car… that’s why we’re now including a panini maker in all models! And no, you can’t take it out of the trunk. Just don’t use it if you don’t want it, silly!

      • CerebralHawks@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        2·
        2 天前

        Ah, so speculation. I speculate that AI will decide we’re not useful and go all Skynet/Matrix on us. I sure hope I’m wrong. But if I try to sell you a doomsday bunker, you have every right to laugh in my face.

        Who knows what Firefox will look like tomorrow? I do agree it’s important to keep options open, knowing about Waterfox, LibreWolf, IceCat, and maybe some others.

  • blackbrook@mander.xyz
    22·
    3 天前

    I wish people would stop talking about “AI browsers” like everyone even knows what that actually means.

    • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      12·
      2 天前

      At this point nothing will stop me having a visceral negative reaction to AI being added to any product after literally every single other implementation in literally every other product has been annoying fucking dogshit. It could be the best thing ever and I’d still react negatively because I never want to hear the god damn word again.

      • JonEFive@midwest.social
        6·
        2 天前

        Every company wants AI even though they have no idea how it helps their business or their company.

        My grocery store app does not need AI when they can’t even get search right.

  • Libb@piefed.socialEnglish
    21·
    3 天前

    Disclaimer: very satisfied user of Waterfox talking ;)

    But I believe Mozilla is making a fundamental mistake.

    I believe that too, but I’m no millionaire CEO either.

    Some will argue that AI browsers are inevitable, that we’re fighting against the tide of history. Perhaps. AI browsers may eat the world. But the web, despite having core centralised properties, is fundamentally decentralised. There will always be alternatives. If AI browsers dominate and then falter, if users discover they want something simpler and more trustworthy, Waterfox will still be here, marching patiently along. We’ve been here before. When Firefox abandoned XUL extensions, Waterfox Classic preserved them. When Mozilla started adding telemetry and Pocket and sponsored content, Waterfox stripped it out. I like to think that where there is want for a browser that simply respects you, Waterfox has delivered.

    Long live Waterfox.

    This may sound silly to say, and it probably is, but to me it’s almost impossible to imagine I could one day stop being a Firefox user. I mean, my first Web browser was Mosaic, I followed it when it turned into Netscape, which I then followed as it became Netscape, before morphing into the giant Mozilla T-Rex, and finally becoming Firefox.

    Take back the Web, I believe(d) in that. Heck, I still have one of their T-Rex t-shirt dedicated by a few of its devs.

    I also have a chromium-based browser (Vivaldi) but Firefox has always been home to me (edit: so seeing it moving away from what I care for is not a great feeling). I’m so glad forks like Waterfox exist because if it was not for them, for the first time ever I would not know what browser I can trust.

      • PushButton@lemmy.world
        2·
        2 天前

        I am still using lynx, everyday. Not for everything, but for most if my news and blog reading.

        It feels great to not being bombarded by the flashy, distracting JavaScript gizmo du-jour. I want to read the content, I don’t care about the AI generated picture at the of the page, or the random picture of something half related to the article.

        I believe everybody should build their website to be accessible with lynx.

        Accessibility isn’t just following the standards and removing the mess from the modern web, it’s also making your site accessible for the people with eyesight problems for example…

  • Ⓜ3️⃣3️⃣ 🌌@lemmy.zip
    191·
    3 天前

    Firefox clones like librewolf and waterfox greatly increase the supply chain attack risk, but they seems more and more attractive every day

      • punchmesan@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        4·
        2 天前

        I’m obviously not OP but the first thing that comes to mind are attacks like the one that targeted xz. Open source developers are generally overloaded between demands from the community and their regular lives, and they also lack the means and ability to check the background of everyone contributing code or vying for maintainer status. This creates the risk that somebody with bad intentions works their way into a position of some power over the code that gets merged. Bigger projects with strict governance and an active community of contributors (or funding for dedicated developers to maintain control and check outside contributions) have much smaller risk in this regard.

  • exu@feditown.comEnglish
    14·
    3 天前

    We still need some organisational alternative to Mozilla. None of the privacy forks would survive Firefox going away.

  • barnaclebutt@lemmy.world
    7·
    2 天前

    I just switched from Firefox to waterfox. It took less than five minutes, and the installation is quite straightforward on Linux. Move the folder to opt, make a symlink, and create a .desktop. The instructions are on the website. I suggest switching the default search to duckduckgo.

  • atrielienz@lemmy.worldEnglish
    41·
    3 天前

    I’m currently in the process of switching to Waterfox while I wait to see what Ladybird can do, and so far I’m pretty happy with my decision.

      • Zerush@lemmy.ml
        2·
        2 天前

        Yes, using it since 10 years as main browser. It’s the most advanced browser out there, good privacy, great ethics to the user by this EU company (employee owned cooperative in Norway), perfect transparency, great community, and yes it isn’t OpenSource, but source available (https://github.com/ric2b/Vivaldi-browser, https://vivaldi.com/source/), the proprietary part (5% of the UI script is 100% auditable and even moddeable by the user, in the forum they show how (naturally at own risk)). It’s Chromium based (de-googled), but not a simple fork like other.

        • nothx [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          1·
          2 天前

          All that is very intriguing. Chromium based browser make me weary, but Im willing to add it to my rotation of browsers. Thanks for the response.

            • nothx [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
              1·
              2 天前

              Not my intent, I was honestly curious what separated Vivaldi from the dozens of other Blink browsers. Also, I’m earnestly interested in pushing my preconceived notions to the side and giving a new browser a test run.

      • Blizzard@lemmy.zipEnglish
        2·
        2 天前

        It’s very good! Honestly, try it. I use it on Android, Linux and Windows. Very customizable and pro-user, nice community.

        It’s based on Chromium but they declared they’ll keep supporting Manifest v2 extensions (uBlock Origin etc.) how long it will be virtually possible even though Chrome blocked them.

        • nothx [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
          1·
          2 天前

          Yeah, I had heard they are doing a lot to leverage chromium, but also distance themselves from it as much as they reasonably can. I’ll definitely have to give it another try, it just takes a lot for me to swallow the fact that’s chrome based browsers have to rely on google to some extent, but I’m intrigued by their way for doing it.

  • jokeyrhyme@lemmy.mlEnglish
    13·
    2 天前

    i’ve been pretty disallusioned with Mozilla leadership

    i’ve jumped back to Chrome for the time being

    i’ll be moving to servo/verso as soon as it meets my needs