None of the id fields in the systemd db are required to be filled. This is useless. Simply don’t put any personal info in, and bam, you’re already liberated, from laws that aren’t even in effect yet!
This is perfectly logical and I agree. Except that this controversy has prompted me to go learn about Lennart Poettering. I’ve been using systemd forever and I like it - I like journald and remote journald, I like networkd, I even deleted cron off my systems and use systemd timers exclusively. I knew there was some controversy about Lennart, but I didn’t really care. Now that I’ve read a bit about his background and, maybe more importantly, his new company - I don’t have a good feeling for the future of systemd.
they’ve said “we speak for the widest used extended user service in linux”… because… that’s what they are
to say they “speak for the distros” is ridiculous: in that case, every time they merge a feature they “speak for the distros”… they speak for their own software, which is implemented by distros precisely because they implement things like this
Then the whole premise of systemd is absurd if it does talk for distros (OSes). When I get NixOS, I don’t install it because it has systemd. I install it because it is built around Nix. SystemD is a freaking fire-and-forget-style convenience and that’s it. When I look at specific features I want or don’t want, the first thing I’m considering is not necessarily the init system, I first look at what sort of computer I want, then I think about the OS, and specific programs like Konsole last.
I do not want a stupid init system, in this case an init system bundled in a suite(!), taking the steering wheel like this. I definitely don’t want this happening in highly politicised contexts like this one. A layer of perversion is added when you take into account that there are hardly any places to evade these big changes as systemd is omnipresent.
SystemD making these big political statements and practical decisions is just as absurd as GNOME or Xorg doing them. Fuck that shit.
you install a distro because of all the software it includes and how they interact out of the box
you’re completely right that systemd is a background service that most people don’t care about, but it does make the whole system more reliable, and much easier to administer for servers or workstations (enterprise management; not personal)
you certainly do want an init system… even sysv-init is an init system: you need something that runs as pid 1 that triggers other services. systemd starts services, and also ensures they’re in the correct security contexts, running as the correct users, makes sure they’re healthy, tracks dependencies (not just order; this speeds things up because it can be parallel, ensures failures don’t cascade, and means there’s far less jank in random bash scripts)
this isn’t a big political statement: this is an acknowledgment that linux users - not all, but some - will want/require something like this… and systemd user database is the place where that information is stored on modern linux systems
What they’ve done, is in the user info field (which already has a ton of information that almost nobody ever fills out) they added a date of birth field. They do not control what it’s used for, who’s going to use it, or if the user will ever bother filling it out. Perhaps nobody will ever implement a use for it, it’s really nothing.
Context matters. Systemd did this as a reaction to frankly insane laws. They didn’t have to do anything like this, yet they did and comparing this to changing and creating files manually in vim misses the point entirely. Intentionally doing something is very different from a feature being natively present.
YOU control what info goes there, if any. It mandates NOTHING.
Until closed source or even open source programs demand an ID verified age from the OS. When that happens you are forced to unmask yourself and the systemd shit is the first step to making such an API possible. It normalizes genuinely insane demands that add nothing for the users except compliance.
This is pretty key. If they had added this field 8 years ago, absent any context of swarms of lawmakers salivating for personal info so they can find more children to fuck, or data to sell to their donors, then I wouldn’t have thought much of it. The timing is absolutely a critical element of the discussion. Heck, wait until CA has repealed its law, and admitted in embarrassment it was a terrible implementation of child protection, and maybe I’d even be okay with adding the field.
Putting it in now is very much like the nazi standing at your door, holding a hand close to your knob, insisting “I’m not actually searching your house and breaking your 4th amendment rights! I’m just standing here, for no particular reason!”
The prospect of being prompted to submit an ID is not useful for making decisions in the here and now? As far as I understand it, this is the concrete danger. California lawmakers and lawmakers from elsewhere have indicated that this is only the beginning.
But this is just speculation. The fact is, systemd introduced a new optional field in the local database. They don’t publish an OS so they have no obligation to do anything more, actual implementation would have to happen in other projects.
What this is, is a spite-fork by some random AI researcher and anybody installing that on their system has way larger problems here and now than hypothetical ID verification in the maybe future.
They don’t publish an OS so they have no obligation to do anything more, actual implementation would have to happen in other projects
Why are the people who decide on changes to systemd implementing stuff that the vast majority of Linux users vehemently reject? +Things that they have no legal obligation of adding I might add.
What this is, is a spite-fork
No one deeply cares about the spite fork. It’s weird that commentators have suddenly become very acclimatised to the systemd changes. A few days ago people were asking themselves why a rando got through with an intensely disliked pull request and now we are here.
the vast majority of Linux users vehemently reject?
I think you vastly over estimate the importance of the reddit/lemmy-sphere freaking out over this.
And the more insane the slippery slopes you imagine skiing down, the less seriously you’re taken. The fact that there isn’t a serious programmer making a fork and instead y’all promoted a slopfork from someone who didn’t read the docs, should be a wakeup call for how unserious y’all are.
If it’s the vast majority of Linux users, how come there was not one that’s read the systemd docs?
I honestly don’t care that much about the law eitherway but the hyperventilating over a milktoast law is something else, it makes me think maybe we should age gate higher.
None of the id fields in the systemd db are required to be filled. This is useless. Simply don’t put any personal info in, and bam, you’re already liberated, from laws that aren’t even in effect yet!
This is perfectly logical and I agree. Except that this controversy has prompted me to go learn about Lennart Poettering. I’ve been using systemd forever and I like it - I like journald and remote journald, I like networkd, I even deleted cron off my systems and use systemd timers exclusively. I knew there was some controversy about Lennart, but I didn’t really care. Now that I’ve read a bit about his background and, maybe more importantly, his new company - I don’t have a good feeling for the future of systemd.
Finally someone who’s read into the issue
Will you still say that when they implement ID checking functionality?
Obviously not, that would be something very very different than what they’ve done.
What systemd has done is the following: They went “we speak for the distros utilizing our program now”
they’ve said “we speak for the widest used extended user service in linux”… because… that’s what they are
to say they “speak for the distros” is ridiculous: in that case, every time they merge a feature they “speak for the distros”… they speak for their own software, which is implemented by distros precisely because they implement things like this
Then the whole premise of systemd is absurd if it does talk for distros (OSes). When I get NixOS, I don’t install it because it has systemd. I install it because it is built around Nix. SystemD is a freaking fire-and-forget-style convenience and that’s it. When I look at specific features I want or don’t want, the first thing I’m considering is not necessarily the init system, I first look at what sort of computer I want, then I think about the OS, and specific programs like Konsole last.
I do not want a stupid init system, in this case an init system bundled in a suite(!), taking the steering wheel like this. I definitely don’t want this happening in highly politicised contexts like this one. A layer of perversion is added when you take into account that there are hardly any places to evade these big changes as systemd is omnipresent.
SystemD making these big political statements and practical decisions is just as absurd as GNOME or Xorg doing them. Fuck that shit.
you install a distro because of all the software it includes and how they interact out of the box
you’re completely right that systemd is a background service that most people don’t care about, but it does make the whole system more reliable, and much easier to administer for servers or workstations (enterprise management; not personal)
you certainly do want an init system… even sysv-init is an init system: you need something that runs as pid 1 that triggers other services. systemd starts services, and also ensures they’re in the correct security contexts, running as the correct users, makes sure they’re healthy, tracks dependencies (not just order; this speeds things up because it can be parallel, ensures failures don’t cascade, and means there’s far less jank in random bash scripts)
this isn’t a big political statement: this is an acknowledgment that linux users - not all, but some - will want/require something like this… and systemd user database is the place where that information is stored on modern linux systems
What they’ve done, is in the user info field (which already has a ton of information that almost nobody ever fills out) they added a date of birth field. They do not control what it’s used for, who’s going to use it, or if the user will ever bother filling it out. Perhaps nobody will ever implement a use for it, it’s really nothing.
No, what they have done is kowtowing.
What? It’s like saying systemd is handing the government your info because they have a field for your real name and address.
YOU control what info goes there, if any. It mandates NOTHING.
You may as well be mad at vim because your text editor is capable of storing your birthdate if you go in and type it and save it to /public/myInfo.txt
Context matters. Systemd did this as a reaction to frankly insane laws. They didn’t have to do anything like this, yet they did and comparing this to changing and creating files manually in vim misses the point entirely. Intentionally doing something is very different from a feature being natively present.
Until closed source or even open source programs demand an ID verified age from the OS. When that happens you are forced to unmask yourself and the systemd shit is the first step to making such an API possible. It normalizes genuinely insane demands that add nothing for the users except compliance.
This is pretty key. If they had added this field 8 years ago, absent any context of swarms of lawmakers salivating for personal info so they can find more children to fuck, or data to sell to their donors, then I wouldn’t have thought much of it. The timing is absolutely a critical element of the discussion. Heck, wait until CA has repealed its law, and admitted in embarrassment it was a terrible implementation of child protection, and maybe I’d even be okay with adding the field.
Putting it in now is very much like the nazi standing at your door, holding a hand close to your knob, insisting “I’m not actually searching your house and breaking your 4th amendment rights! I’m just standing here, for no particular reason!”
Will you still say that when aliens from the 19th Dimension verify your age rectally?
forget cookies, reload, begin; forget cookies, reload, begin
… auto clicker
I don’t know what this derailment is ultimately trying to say honestly.
It’s saying that you can invent an infinite number of hypothetical futures but they are not useful for making decisions in the here and now
The prospect of being prompted to submit an ID is not useful for making decisions in the here and now? As far as I understand it, this is the concrete danger. California lawmakers and lawmakers from elsewhere have indicated that this is only the beginning.
But this is just speculation. The fact is, systemd introduced a new optional field in the local database. They don’t publish an OS so they have no obligation to do anything more, actual implementation would have to happen in other projects.
What this is, is a spite-fork by some random AI researcher and anybody installing that on their system has way larger problems here and now than hypothetical ID verification in the maybe future.
Why are the people who decide on changes to systemd implementing stuff that the vast majority of Linux users vehemently reject? +Things that they have no legal obligation of adding I might add.
No one deeply cares about the spite fork. It’s weird that commentators have suddenly become very acclimatised to the systemd changes. A few days ago people were asking themselves why a rando got through with an intensely disliked pull request and now we are here.
I think you vastly over estimate the importance of the reddit/lemmy-sphere freaking out over this.
And the more insane the slippery slopes you imagine skiing down, the less seriously you’re taken. The fact that there isn’t a serious programmer making a fork and instead y’all promoted a slopfork from someone who didn’t read the docs, should be a wakeup call for how unserious y’all are.
If it’s the vast majority of Linux users, how come there was not one that’s read the systemd docs?
I honestly don’t care that much about the law eitherway but the hyperventilating over a milktoast law is something else, it makes me think maybe we should age gate higher.
when that happens, I’ll build my own ISO with that part stripped out, or just move away from systemd
deleted by creator
Yupp 100% optional.
for now