cross-posted from: https://quokk.au/c/fediverse/p/887450/piefed-flagship-instance-shadowbanning-instances-from-discoverability-other-questionable-upd

This morning while checking if Quokk.au’s new instance logo was federated out, I discovered that overnight we had been shadowbanned from the PieFed.Social Instance Chooser (This is a tool to help spread out users across the platform and help avoid funnelling users into the largest.)

Knowing that Rimu was happy to explain, I just asked for some clarification as we were visible on every other PieFed instance except his.

Apparently for ’ obvious reasons ', of which I can only assume is our left leaning anarchist/pro-trans stance we were chosen not be advertised on the PieFed flagship instance and first point of contact for many potential new users. Seeing as a large portion of our new users found us via this method, it will have a tangible effect on a small instance such as ours.

This was a pretty sad sight to see, and reflects the sort of petty drama that is emanating from the PieFed project lately. It’s now the third such move to discredit and harm left leaning instances by PieFed’s lead developer. This also shows a trend towards autocratic unilateral decision-making on Piefed.social, of which is starting to be run as a personal fiefdom without consulting the team or users.

I must commend Lemmy.ml for remaining neutral and not letting its own political leanings influence join-lemmy.org, while simultaneously condemn PieFed.social for this immature move that is harmful to the health of the Fediverse.


Following this exchange, Rimu announced a new update to PieFed allowing for some rather concerning things.

  • Modlog: Reason for the action is only shown from trusted instances, so abusive mods won’t have an audience. Admins can still see the reason though. Which instances are trusted is set in the admin UI.

This feature means problematic users can now go undetected, and will harm moderators ability to view their past moderation history. For example PieFed.social runs a ‘trusted’ list of only 34 instances, meaning any mod action taken by any of the hundreds of instances outside of this will not show up. So for example if Quokk.au was to ban a user for transphobia (our most common ban), this will not be reflected for piefed.social users potentially leading towards more hate speech on the Fediverse.

  • Instance silencing similar to Mastodon. A silenced instance is not defederated from but their posts do not show in the Popular or All feeds and their communities are not shown in Starter packs aka Topics. Their communities can still be found in the communities list and joined in the normal way. Once joined, posts in there show up in the subscribed feed as usual.

This is another way to shadowban instances and not ‘advertise’ them. Surely if an instance is problematic enough that a defederation would be in order rather than this reddit-like move.

edit. Hello anyone from the piefed.social thread snoopy locked to preemptively prevent mod work. More interesting mod chose to only attack me and others outside of the piefed.social thread 🤔

  • Cris_Citrus@piefed.zip
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    1 day ago

    Hi, I’m like 1000% out of the loop on all this- would you (or anyone else) be willing to give a short summary of what the ai feature in question was and what he lied or mislead people about?

    I’m not on piefed.social but I’m still using a piefed based instance and would like to at least kinda sorta keep up with things. I’m sure there are also lots of other people out of the loop

    • mathemachristian [he/him]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 day ago

      Very short:

      • db0 mod/admin team developed mod tool unrelated to LLMs
      • they experimented putting the output of that tool into a locally running LLM but it wasn’t very good so they discarded that approach
      • except for this one very obvious rule-breaker where they did link the LLM output in the ban reason
      • rimu saw that one modlog and posted about “zomg ai moderation is here what do we do??”
      • turns out he already had gotten confirmation that they weren’t using an LLM for moderation but he kept it silent

      The slightly longer answer https://lem.lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/42253753/20358978 and also see https://lem.lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/42212552/20361800

      • Cris_Citrus@piefed.zip
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        1 day ago

        By the way, for some reason those links aren’t working for me- ive not seen the Lem.lemmy part of the URLs before, are those lemmy internal links?

        For some reason I can’t seem to open them in my browser or my mobile client. I may try again on my laptop at some point but I’m currently juggling stuff

          • Cris_Citrus@piefed.zip
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            1 day ago

            Thank you! ❤️ I think my client also just doesnt handle cross instance links like at all I’m realizing, I prolly need to go open an issue about that

            This whole situation sucks. I just switched to piefed cause I wasn’t in love with my last instance. Probably I’ll stay where I am for some time (and I do like the folks running my current instance, even if the .zip domain is a bad idea), but this does sour me on piefed a bit. With the .ml folks its mostly how they run their own instance, and they take ownership of their ideology. The issues folks are talking about here feels potentially like it spills out onto other people/instances more, and I don’t love that

            Maybe I’ll try mbin, or at least set up a lemmy.zip account in addition to my current piefed one