Yes, shooting civilians has that effect. I read something similar in the 3rd Reich general memoirs.
Yup. That’s why they came up with the extermination camps. More humane. For tne killers.
Almost like committing war crimes feels unethical. Obviously seen in Iraq, Viet Nam etc. I think it’s ok to feel bad for everyone
Israeli army is significantly made of conscripts. Men need to serve at least 3 years compulsory military service, women 2 years.
And I am sure not all of them support the government. I would go as far as the one with PTSD and committing suicide are the ones that less support the talking points of the government
That excuse is one step removed from “just following orders”
Cool, what would you do? Desert? (And go where?) Commit suicide?
It is possible to refuse to be conscripted, and be sent to jail for 30 days. Mostly people go to another country.
Most of them are dual citizens anyway, easiest out for any military.
I sure as shit wouldn’t be shooting children in the streets. Anywhere I guess, but also the streets. I’d rather take a bullet to the head denying an order instead of murdering an innocent.
PTSD can be caused by much more than just shooting someone. For example, witnessing the horror is probably enough. Most soldiers, in any military, never fire their rifle in combat. Many still have PTSD.
Option 1: Rape and kill (in)discriminately for 3 years Option 2: Use your passport and leave Option 3: Object and face jail time (inversely proportional to how well your parents are connected to police, lawyers, or politicians)
Gee, all three options sound equally bad so it’s a very tough choice
Do you realise that the wast majority of conscripts is doing office job. When you take the decision option 1 is more “doing office job unless you are unlucky”. And even there, likely the people that commit suicide and/or develop PTSD are not people that rape (they are doing just fine and happy to go for another mission)
Option 2 is only if you have two citizenships (and the other is not Russian like the majority of Israeli people) otherwise you can’t really move
Of course I do, did I stutter? Genocide needs compliant office workers, or did you think “terrorist office workers” have their hands clean?
Option 2 is available for every Israeli, including the vast majority of citizens who have dual citizenship, and not exclusively. Israel does not have a SuperIsrael preventing them to flee
Like asking for asylum? How do you imagine immigration pans out? (Not emigration, sure, that is the easy part)
They have the option of refusing service and serving a few months in jail instead of shooting toddlers in the head. Conscription is not an excuse.
If you’re downvoting the idea of refusing to shoot children for 30 days in jail, you might just be a Nazi.
They were just following orders?
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Men need to serve at least 3 years compulsory military service, women 2 years.
Are you saying there are no innocents in Israel?
There’s children, there’s folks who refuse service. So I would venture to say that there are some people in Israel who are innocent. Of course, anyone who served in the military is not on that list.
Conscientious objectors are a thing. There are consequences to objecting, of course. Maybe it makes you a pariah in the settler colonial apartheid ethnostate of Israel, but just fucking move, you’re not supposed to be there anyway. Maybe you cannot move out of Israel, and you’ll be flipping burgers for the rest of your life or whatever. But you know what? Murdering a child to save your own career still makes you the bad guy. Helping others murder children to save your own career still makes you the bad guy.
But even beyond that, it’s not like these folks are going to gaza with a gun pointed to their head. Most of the population supports the government’s genocide of Palestinians, as polls show. There are very few innocents in Israel.
“Shooting and crying” (Hebrew: יורים ובוכים, romanized: yorim ve bochim) is an expression used to describe books, films or other forms of media that portray soldiers expressing remorse for actions they undertook during their service. It has often been associated with a practice that some former Israel Defense Force soldiers follow.
Gil Hochberg described “shooting and crying” as a soldier being “sorry for things I had to do.” This “non-apologetic apology” was the self-critique model advanced in Israel in many politically reflective works of literature and cinema as “a way of maintaining the nation’s self-image as youthful and innocent. Along with its sense of vocation against the reality of war, growing military violence, occupation, invasion, [there was] […] an overall sense that things were going wrong.”
Poor genociders
(Article from Oct. 2024)
I remember this article was suspiciously titled similar to another one from a different outlet about a Gazan teenager who suffered loss of limbs and family, while sheltering outside a a school in a makeshift refuge camp.
Almost as if CNN saw it and wanted to do a reverse take.
I guess that, sometimes, the trash takes itself out…
Well, no because this means all the people with some form of independent thought and morals will be gone and only psychopaths and sociopaths will be left, who are the actual trash.
Yeah, these genociders are independent thinkers with morals, unlike those genociders who are the actual trash. I’m sure the mothers of murdered Palestinian children will be comforted by the fact that their children were slaughtered by moral and thinking genociders.
Some shit stinks less than other shit. Still shit though, so good riddance.
Dude, what the fuck…
Good. Let’s hope they all do it.
It is not a war, it is a genocide. The IDF target and shoot kids in the head. Knowing that your side does this would mess up most people.
War only has losers. No winners
The arms makers always win
Its not a war.
Fair enough
It’s every war.
“Last season’s winners.”
Seems like suicide is the only proof that Zionists have any humanity.
What do you think? Every country has this problem if and when a war ‘persists’.
Russian Soldiers Confront PTSD, Alcoholism and Suicidal Thoughts After Fighting in Ukraine
The battle Russia has not yet fought: The mental health of its war veterans
And, not to forget, there are also victims:
Ukraine: Mental Health Crisis Intensifies for Children
There are -unfortunately- many reports on that across literally all wars.
One key thing that our research into PTSD has found is that soldiers are far less likely to experience it when they understand what it is they’re doing and why they’re doing it. This means both at the large scale operational level, and the small scale tactical level.
“You’re holding this trench so that our sister company can safely withdraw” is a lot more motivating than “You’re holding this trench because orders are orders.”
And yeah, at the operational level, the people fighting a war want to believe that it has a purpose. That they’re doing good. That their suffering will make other people’s lives better.
Hard to believe that when you’re mostly just murdering innocent civilians.
According to Israel, they have, ahem… ‘the most moral military in the world’. And according to this psychiatrist these suicides are attributed to ‘moral injury’ due to ‘accidentally’ killing women and children.
With the amount of women and children murdered by the Israeli army, surely the entire army should have killed themselves through ‘moral injury’?
Perhaps the truth is simpler, Israel is a genocidal apartheid ethnocolony that forces its citizens to be complicit in its bloodshed through conscription and these are the few soldiers with any shred of morals left.
Being a Nazi come with mental baggage?
I know you’re making a joke, but the Nazis actually ran into the exact same issue.
The Einsatzgruppen (death squads) had the problem that executing so many people was ‘demoralizing’ to the troops. They started to suffer from mental health problems. It’s not surprising, is it? Even with all the propaganda, even believing they were only murdering ‘lebensunwertiges Leben’ (life unworthy of life), killing so many scared, crying people, including children, takes a toll. Oh and it also costs a lot of bullets.
Because of this the Nazis started using gas vans to kill people. But even that was a problem, because the soldiers were getting traumatized when they had to empty all the bodies out of the vans. So they started using prisoners to do that work…
But well, it was all very inefficient and slow and expensive. And that’s how we eventually ended up with fully industrialized death camps with gas chambers and crematoria (of course with prisoners doing all the dirty work because why the hell not).
People are human and naturally sociable. They created monsters out of their soldiers. Dissonance gonna cause something to snap sooner or later.
More of this please.
I’d rather have the war stop though.
*genocide
It can be both.
That is indeed possible. But it happens not to be both.
Both Hamas and Israel seem to agree it is a war? Hamas stated goal was to create a “permanent state of war” with Israel, and Netanyahu announced that Israel was at war as well. You think they’re only pretending or something?
I’m not sure what the point of denying that it is a war is? It doesn’t undercut the genocide perpetrated by Israel in any way, nor does it justify it. Perhaps you could explain this as I’m not following.
