• kurcatovium@piefed.social
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    2 days ago

    I would electrify my transport in a heartbeat, if only it wasn’t so fucking expensive. Like ~30k€ for cheapest Kia BEV? Not even speaking about more “premium” brands. How tf should I get that with mediocre eastern european salary?

    • wewbull@feddit.uk
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      8 hours ago

      Don’t buy new. The second hand market for EVs is great. 3-4 year old cars with over 200 miles range for £12-15k, and lots of them.

    • Kkk2237pl@lemmy.world
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      7 hours ago

      Yup, but in Poland there are still small fraction of evs…

      Renault is government company, why they dont want to sell evs cars cheaper? Is it really necessary to make bigger profit than from ice?

      • Renohren@lemmy.today
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        10 hours ago

        You meant Renault? They made the Zoe back in 2014, then made the Megane only electric, made the Spring through their Dacia subsidiary, now the 5, and they are launching the new Twingo generation as only electric. This makes them cover all EV segments, from the sub 20.000 euro electric car to the 60.000 one through alpine. They use more and more European made batteries and motors. Out of all the European car makers Renault and Mercedes are the ones that are the most pro electric now.

        • Kkk2237pl@lemmy.world
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          7 hours ago

          Yup, but why electric model is more expensive than ice one? Because of government subsidies?

          • Renohren@lemmy.today
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            6 hours ago

            The new twingo is the exact same price in constant euros as the first gen twingo that came out in 1993.

            Besides that, prices of EVs are not more expensive over 5 or 10 years despite the shown price because you run them at a much much cheaper price : electricity is often cheaper than gas, the only real cost you would have to pay is tires and shock absorbers, breaks pads and disks get used a lot less because of regen, no belts or chains, no spark plugs, no oil change, no exhaust, no turbo, no belts driven AC, no starter motor, no alternators etc… All those things that cost a lot in mechanic repairs for most cars.

            • Kkk2237pl@lemmy.world
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              6 hours ago

              Citroen ec3 was 2x more expensive than ice version…

              European evs are ridiculously expensive in comparison to for example Tesla

              • Renohren@lemmy.today
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                6 hours ago

                Tesla’s start at over 30.000 euros! That’s not a cheap car by no means!

                Plus: there is a huge problem at the top of Tesla. It’s not the subject here but I cannot close my eyes on Greenland’s fate just for a car. I have the same reservation over Tibet or the Uyghurs for other brands.

    • eutampieri@feddit.it
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      2 days ago

      Have you considered the Dacia Spring? It should be fine for short-medium range trips and it costs “only” 20k

      • qevlarr@lemmy.world
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        11 hours ago

        I own a Dacia, I want a cheap car with no luxury. But but the Spring is just a bad car. Poor charging, poor range, can’t accelerate at highway speed. Those are not luxuries. It was the first electric car at this price range, but now there are better competitors.

      • skarn@discuss.tchncs.de
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        2 days ago

        To me a car like that kinda defeats the point of owning a car.

        If it’s only needed for driving around town and getting groceries, I can do that with (e-?)bike+transit+carsharing.

        A significant fraction of my yearly km are driven on trip of over 500km/day, and to do that with the family it really helps to have a car. It’ll still be a while before electric cars are completely viable for my use case.

        Replacing the short range use of cars with electrical ones is the wrong approach. It should mostly be reduced by offering alternatives. If people use the car only half as much, that’s a nearly 50% reduction on emission and fuel consumption, right there.

        • qevlarr@lemmy.world
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          11 hours ago

          Wouldn’t you do it the other way around, where the car you own is for commuting and kids taxi, and you use a car rental or sharing service for the long trips?

          • skarn@discuss.tchncs.de
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            9 hours ago

            We have bought the smallest car that would satisfy all our needs (a small station wagon), and we use it as necessary.

            My commute is outrageous BTW, 50+50km, at highway speed and with airco, that might already be a stretch for the Dacia Spring. I do it mostly by train though.

            I would have thought that:

            “Reducing car use is better than just replacing them. Cars as they cover a lot of difficult corner cases, but let’s offer good alternatives for the day to day life”

            should be a pretty uncontroversial take, and yet I’m here discussing with people that want to use cars everyday, and cover the exceptions with the alternatives.

        • Renohren@lemmy.today
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          10 hours ago

          For over 500km/day, I use the train. Not many people put on 115 500 km/year on their car. You are an exception.

          • skarn@discuss.tchncs.de
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            9 hours ago

            Easy there, we do ~15000 km/year, but ~4000 of those are on long trips. That’s “a significant fraction”. I didn’t say I spend all day every day in the car.

            There are many logistical reasons why we still need one car, but we are actually also able to walk, bike, and use transit.

            And I expect I spend more time on a train that you do. But it’s not always the most practical option.

            Crossing the alps on a train means too many changes, with trains from different companies, and my bored kids (depends on the origin and destination, but it’s true in my case). Even using the plane, with all the associated changes and buffer times, usually takes 6 or 7 hours.

            Holidays in the mountains also gets a hell of a lot harder without a car. That’s true in general, but it’s doubly so in the places where I like to go (less crowded secondary destinations). Public transport requires density, and the last thing I want in the mountains is high density.

            Edit:

            As I wrote in another message, I would have thought that:

            “Reducing car use is better than just replacing them. Cars as they cover a lot of difficult corner cases, but let’s offer good alternatives for the day to day life”

            should be a pretty uncontroversial take, and yet I’m here discussing with people that want to use cars everyday, and cover the exceptions with the alternatives.

        • eutampieri@feddit.it
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          1 day ago

          I agree with you, and I get around town mostly on bike. Many people don’t, and I think it would be better if they drove EVs. Anyway, if I’d need to buy a car, I would still consider the Spring, since its range would be fine for heavy loads that I wouldn’t carry on a (cargo) bike or 100-200 km trips