Normally I always forget why I still keep thinking about switching back to Windows. Today was a great reminder. Linux can be frustrating. This post is somewhat about awareness and partly about me learning about other peoples experiences. I updated my CachyOS as usual. There were some system packages upgraded and I got the notification to reboot. Figuring I’d do it later I left after some time and the PC went to sleep. Upon returning the screen stayed black. Even upon forced reboot. Remembering I was using Limine with BTRFS snapshots I tried multiple previous snapshots but to no avail. I remember this happened before. So now I face another reinstall… This and having to dive into the deep end of terminal commands to get drivers, programs or games working can be quite frustrating. I understand why people are turned off and go back to Windows…
Onto NixOS for me. A big dive but it seems very stable which might be just what i need. I feel like the philosophy of NixOS combined with a graphical store to install programs and what not seems like a great solution.
What would your ultimate distro be like?
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First of all U don’t need to reinstall anything switch to tty firstly and find out what wrong happened second u can boot in usual live cachyos iso chroot in ur main system and reinstall all packages of system it might help but better firsrly understand what caused this
I’ve really enjoyed NixOS the past few years. I think if I started over with it I’d be less ambitious about making it an impermanent setup over ZFS. It’s not a particularly enjoyable experience to set up as bugs abound with ZFS specifically. But other than that initial highly experimental choice at the time its been stable. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have!
i like bazzite/fedora atomic a lot, i also quite enjoy vanillaos (if you like debian). if you have an issue on any of them its trivial to rollback to a previous patch and pin that patch until someone does something about it
This will sound like heresy to some, but get away from the bleeding edge. You probably don’t need the absolute latest version of every little thing. It can feel cool knowing you know how to fix a borked install but actually having to do so sucks. Dump the hype and get to something stable for your daily driver. If you want to experiment, do it on another drive/machine. Building a custom rocketship is cool, but you should probably build it without breaking the truck you use to go get parts.
I was gonna say the same thing.
For most beginners who just want their PC to work, the obvious choice should be Mint for older hardware, and Universal Blue’s Fedora-based images (Bluefin or Aurora depending on the preferred desktop).
Of course, since OP mentioned NixOS that is an option as well. But it should be the stable version, and it is not beginner friendly like the other two.
I’m going to call this another vote for Debian
I use Garuda, and it hasn’t borked for me in years. I update it about once a week.
Been on Garuda since September and it’s fantastic. Surprised it doesnt get more love around here.
The one criticism that I felt had some truth to it is that it looks like it was designed by a 14-year-old boy. I think it appeals to my inner 14-year-old who wants neon icons and DRAGONS. But if Dr460nized is too garish for you and you want something more sophisticated, now there’s Mokka.
Pardon me for asking so … but if you yearn for the “stability” (“simplicity”?) of Windows why not use a Linux distro with an approach more similar to that?
So something not Arch based, … and even tho NixOS almost kinda is the correct direction (for an arch-ish thing), I got the feeling you don’t really want to configure your system & potentially upkeep that config?
Also to note that the actual issue wasn’t fully diagnosed. Reinstalling the full os to fix an update is fairly extreme for your mainstream Linux these days.
But to be at least a bit on topic - bcs I need “simplicity” & “stability” at times when I can’t even (for months on end) I use Tumbleweed (rolling distro).
Fully agree!
As a Linux user for more than 10 years now, I can not really understand why so many people switch from Windows to CachyOS.
Yes, CachyOS is great. In general I see the advantage of Arch based distros, but only if one knows what they are doing. It’s great on fresh installs, but over time users need to fix issues and make decisions and this only works if they know what they are doing.
Similar wis NixOS. Great distro, but not for low maintanance and beginners. If you just want something that runs super stable and you don’t need to fix anything, go for Debian. And there are a lot of options between Debian and CachyOS.
+1
I run CachyOs and EndeavourOS on my main desktop, and I really don’t mind tinkering to fix things if needed.
I also share a laptop with my wife, and that’s where I want something Windows like (both in stability and familiarity). Zorin has been really good for that imo.
Why reinstall instead of just repairing the issue at hand?
We had to do that in Windows too.
How long have you been using Linux, so on the one hand you still keep thinking about Windows. And on the other hand you already progressed to an Arch derivate, use BTRFS, snapshots, a non-standard bootloader and all that stuff?
I like NixOS. But it’s really for people with too much spare time to learn new programming languages, abstract concepts and weird quirks. It’s great. But sometimes you’ll also do a simple
nixos-rebuild switchand it’ll greet you with 4 pages of gibberish. Or you’ll spend 3h packaging some weird Python stuff, because you can’t just install and run it like on a regular distro 😅What would your ultimate distro be like?
… Debian.
You must have been of Microslop for a while if you think frustrating issues on update is a Linux thing. Just last a couple weeks ago, Microsoft released a security update that locked people out of their “C” drive. (In Windows, this is bad)
Windows sucks donkey balls for sure. Between shoving AI down your throat and indeed also messing up things or weird ass issues it’s a shit fest too. But my point is that people are more adjusted to it and there’s more resources to fix the issue. And in my experience it’s less of a OS breaking experience.
I’ve found the opposite - using Linux on my PC has been a breeze. I expected drama connecting my phone and e-reader, but no. Plain sailing, everything just works. I’m so glad I jumped when I did, hearing some of the recent Windows nonsense.
I’m on Zorin if it helps. The free version.
no “ultimate distro”, but i do wish there was a bigger culture of “no regressions for users”
Plasma 6 has been a series of regressions for me, such that i find my computer a little less functional almost every time i update.
That said i still like it miles better than mac or Windows, which are even worse about this
but i do wish there was a bigger culture of “no regressions for users”
Isn’t that basically Cinnamon, Mate, Xfce (and most other DEs not named COSMIC, GNOME or KDE Plasma)?
Im always surprised how different the windows expirience seems to be for many people or do they ignore all the searching for drivers, editing registry entries, running sketchy bats, trying compatibility modes until something works, random blue screens, shutdowns that are reboots.
What do you mean? I hear that “SFC /SCANNOW” fixes everything!
Totally agree with Kichae. Adding to that I’d argue it’s easier for windows since more people use it so there’s more resources. Also, Windows is just a single way of doing things. There’s a difference between distros so a fix for Ubuntu might not work for Arch. Of course windows has it’s (huge) flaws and not everything works perfectly. There’s a reason I switched. But Linux in my experience breaks in a bigger way in my personal experience.
Well, most of us know how to deal with all of those, and the vast majority of them haven’t been an issue for the average user for, like, decades now. No one’s fucking with compatubility mode post, like, 2004.
Meanwhile, most of the help you get when trying to solve issues on Linux are command line commands that are not explained by the helper and which we have no idea what they actually do.
The fight I had just to get my printer to work. The fight I’m still having to get my audio interface to work consistently.
You might be interested in an immutable distro. Like Bazzite or other Silverblue / Ublue flavoured system. They are recent but not bleeding edge, deploy well tested images that apply as all-or-nothing. Very stable, very featurful :)
I just switch from pop os to bazzite. Bit of a changing going to fedora for the first time but overall I like it. Good for someone who wants a Windows experience, comes with steam already installed
If I’m being completely honest, it sounds like you hit a problem and then just kinda gave up (I’m not trying to sound mean or anything - please don’t take it that way).
If I were in that situation I would probably drop to a terminal (ex. CTRL+ALT+3) and try to find what failed (
journalctl). Especially if the screen just stayed black I would probably wonder what packages I just updated. I’m not going to remember, but it’s probably something graphical. Maybe I installed nvidia dkms packages and I have a mismatch or I decided to try out a different login manager and it happens to not support Wayland or something. Snapshots would be my last resort, not my first.As far as NixOS, I love it. Its incredibly stable and the declarative language is really handy to write in. I’m not aware of any graphical store though (outside of maybe some github project). Its declarative meaning you write the configuration.nix file and import any secondary files into the config. And packages are installed declaratively:
environment.systemPackages = with pkgs; [ pkgs.gnome-tweaks pkgs.gnome-control-center pkgs.gnome-terminal }I would say if you are wanting GUI that NixOS is probably not a great choice. I mean just to get installed package version, you’re going to have to do a one-liner (mine for example):
#!/bin/bash find /run/current-system/sw/bin/ -type l -exec readlink {} \; | sed -E 's|[^-]+-([^/]+)/.*|\1|g' | sort -uiIf I’m being completely honest, it sounds like you hit a problem and then just kinda gave up (I’m not trying to sound mean or anything - please don’t take it that way).
Not having a display output made me feel like I’d need a live USB and fix it with root which is often to always quite involved. Thank you for your detailed guide. That’s part of why I love the Linux community. There’s often to always someone knowledgeable that has a solution. I will try this later!
If I’m being completely honest, it sounds like you hit a problem and then just kinda gave up (I’m not trying to sound mean or anything - please don’t take it that way).
I got the same impression. Which is fine if that’s someone’s approach, but that same person probably shouldn’t be on an arch-based distro if that’s the case.
Why sometimes Linux is hard to switch to
Switching is easy. Sticking to it is harder and involves relearning most of your activities in a new context.
So now I face another reinstall…
I’d honestly think that CachyOS was more ‘sturdy’. Though, I suppose it’s curious that you don’t mention anything about your troubleshooting attempts. Beyond your rollbacks in hopes of resolving the issue*. If you don’t like/want to (learn to) troubleshoot, then reconsider if CachyOS is your home.
FWIW, over (almost) 4 years of Fedora Atomic, I was only once ‘forced’ to reinstall; which happened in the first week (or so). And that was 100% a user error.
This and having to dive into the deep end of terminal commands to get drivers, programs or games working can be quite frustrating.
This isn’t recognizable to me. Would you be so kind to clarify/elaborate? Perhaps with an example even?
I understand why people are turned off and go back to Windows…
The only time I felt this, was when I just cold-turkey switched to Fedora Silverblue and bashed my head to the wall when trying to implement Madaidan’s hardening 😅. But, again, that was just very naive.
Onto NixOS for me.
NixOS is definitely based. So go for it.
What would your ultimate distro be like?
Stateless, and hardened AF. So, probably an amalgamation between your favorite security-focused Linux (be it secureblue or Qubes OS) and NixOS for its impermanence module.
Sticking to it is harder and involves relearning most of your activities in a new context.
True. That’s already a speedbump in the road. But that’s to be expected when switching to a different OS.
I suppose it’s curious that you don’t mention anything about your troubleshooting attempts. Beyond your rollbacks in hopes of resolving the issue*. If you don’t like/want to (learn to) troubleshoot, then reconsider if CachyOS is your home.
Troubleshooting is no issue. But not having a picture does not help lol. Perhaps using a live USB might fix it. But then again, that probably involves messing with kernel settings or whatever. Seems quite involved for a simple update…
This isn’t recognizable to me. Would you be so kind to clarify/elaborate? Perhaps with an example even?
Depends. I had issues with Bluetooth chips. That’s the fault of the manufacturer, not Linux but still. My Xbox controller was difficult to connect at times. I’ve had installs with audio issues or difficulties playing games because Lutris or Bottles wouldn’t work…
Thanks for the response!
But not having a picture does not help lol. Perhaps using a live USB might fix it. But then again, that probably involves messing with kernel settings or whatever. Seems quite involved for a simple update…
I 100% agree with you. But we shouldn’t ignore that CachyOS -at the end of the day- is still just Arch. And, within its excellent Wiki, we find the following “Warning” in the section concerning upgrading packages:
“Users are expected to follow the guidance in the System maintenance#Upgrading the system section to upgrade their systems regularly and not blindly run the following command.”
If we follow the link, we find within the second paragraph the following important reminder:
“Make sure to have the Arch install media or another Linux ‘live’ CD/USB available so you can easily rescue your system if there is a problem after updating.”
Kinda on the nose, don’t you think 😅? So, to be clear:
- I agree that reaching out to a live USB after a simple update is kinda bonkers.
- Yet, I acknowledge that that’s basically within expectations for Arch.
- Hence, I don’t use Arch[1]. And perhaps you shouldn’t either…
My Xbox controller was difficult to connect at times.
Thanks for clarifying! But, is this still related to issues with Bluetooth chips?
I’ve had installs with audio issues
Sorry, I simply can’t relate; simply, because I thankfully can’t recall being bothered with any such occurrence.
difficulties playing games because Lutris or Bottles wouldn’t work…
This, however, I can relate to. I’ve noticed that installing through one of the storefronts -be it GOG[2], Steam, Epic[3] (etc)- is a much better experience. And even if you don’t own it through any of the aforementioned platforms. Chances are that both the Steam client AND Heroic Games Launcher will do a splendid job at running the game. To be clear, I’ve use both Lutris and Bottles in the past; the latter quite extensively even*.
Every modern distro keeps previous kernel boot entries available at boot time. You don’t need to use snapshots to simply not boot a potentially problematic kernel update.
There are literally near zero reasons to ever have to reinstall any Linux install. Moving to a more complex distribution isn’t going to solve your problem here, which is just learning a different workflow. That workflow being more akin to software development workflows: if something fucks up, just revert.
