• DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    Yeah, granted: the nation of America is imperialist, warmongering, and has bad government, and a good proportion of Americans are okay with that—but not all Americans.

    Not all Americans.

    Not all Russians.

    and if, say, a German, Icelander, Irish person, Iranian, or a Palestinian says something stupid, I will call wt:thon (þon) out on that regardless on how well behaved and/or victimized þons country is.

    • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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      2 days ago

      OK. So then you have to either say that America is not a democracy - it does not represent the views of its populace - or that the majority of Americans ARE just fine with their government that kills millions.

      At a certain point, Americans are Good Germans.

      • DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        I suppose yes.

        So imagine a German in 1943 denouncing the US for its horrible treatment of blacks and indigenous at the time and maybe the past 10 years earlier.

        An American replies, “Shut the hell up! Your country is a Nazi dictatorship! You shouldn’t be lecturing anyone about the bad treatment of minorities and other peoples!”

        “I’m not a Nazi, in the last 3 elections, I voted SPD.”

        “It doesn’t matter, Hitler runs your country. He was elected because at heart you’re all Nazis!”

        • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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          2 days ago

          That’s exactly the point. Voting SPD (which, btw, made the mistakes that put the Nazis in power) doesn’t absolve you from the responsibilities of what your country does.

          Either vote with your feet, or start doing more. Because the people you’re murdering need more than you just voting harder.

          • DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            It seems that according to your political morality, Hitler, every member of the SS, every guard in Auschwitz, every other member of the Nazi Party, and every other German who didn’t make it out of the country or didn’t want to wind up in prison or dead in a probable futile fight, is equally bad.

            Meanwhile Churchill, every British soldier, every other citizen of United Kingdom, including every Nazi sympathizer and/or imperialist is equally good.

            No American can talk about another country’s bad deeds because what America is doing.

            America had no business invading Nazi Germany, until they first got rid of their racism, and maybe paid restitution for slavery and return territory to the indigenous.

            UK had no business invading Nazi Germany until they allowed their territories in Africa and Asia to go independent. Hitler murdered Jews and Slavs, Churchill murdered Bengalis.

            Similar with France. How dare they fight against Vichy when they fought against anti-imperialists in Algeria.

            Who murdered more Ukrainians? Hitler or Stalin? Maybe the Western allies such as the US should have let them fight it out.

            • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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              1 day ago

              is equally bad.

              No, and that’s a strawman. But the Americans who are sitting back going “well I voted for Kamala, it’s not MY problem” are bad. And that’s all I said.

              The rest of your nonsense is the same strawman.

              Who murdered more Ukrainians? Hitler or Stalin?

              Hitler.

              • DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world
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                1 day ago

                (my bold)

                No, and that’s a strawman. But the Americans who are sitting back going “well I voted for Kamala, it’s not MY problem” are bad. And that’s all I said.

                what you said:

                https://lemmy.world/post/51348178/25602197

                Yeah - until I see George W Bush hanging in The Hague, Americans should probably shut the fuck up about their advice to other countries on how to deal with war criminals.

                The rest of your nonsense is the same strawman.

                Perhaps in other words, you can’t be bothered trying to refute what I posted.

                Who murdered more Ukrainians? Hitler or Stalin?

                Hitler.

                You’re probably right.

                wp:Holodomor

                Around 3.5 to 5 million in Ukraine; see death toll

                wp:World War II casualties of the Soviet Union#Estimated losses by Soviet republic

                6,850,000

                So I guess neither the Germans in the 1940s were in any position to criticize the Soviets over Holodomor, nor the Russians in the 1930s were in any position to criticize Ukraine.

                • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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                  18 hours ago

                  Meh, you want to dive into the Holodomor - there were even larger amounts of famine deaths in other SSRs, so depends what you’re calling “murdered”. Whereas the Nazi extermination campaign in Ukraine was purposeful murder.

                  you can’t be bothered trying to refute what I posted

                  That you equate different things and therefore decide that you magically are in the right?

                  Wow, amazing that.

                  Meanwhile your war criminals are running around free. Donald Rumsfeld died in his bed, Georgie is painting soldiers. How many dead from their war?

                  So I guess

                  Yes, I think you spend lots of time doing that.