“The fall of Rome, Spain’s imperial decline, the French Revolution, the end of Bretton Woods [the 1944 agreement establishing today’s international monetary system]… this is effectively a transfer of real wealth from the poor to the rich elites who protect themselves with gold,” Bertrand wrote. “We’re witnessing what may be one of the great pivotal moments in financial history yet it’s being barely discussed.”
It’ll never get old to me that the Uber wealthy know money is only valuable because everyone agrees it is. And when they accumulate too much, everyone else stops caring about it make Ng it worthless…
And their response is always to hoard a different thing that is mostly valuable only because people all agree it is.
Like, gold does have some actual uses, but none of this is being used for that. Just hoarded because people think others want it.
But shit gets bad enough, it’s like a zombie apocalypse.
You can have all the gold in the world, doesn’t mean someone will trade even a gun with a single bullet for it.
There’s just no real way to hold onto that insane levels of wealth it inequality, because it’s totally unnatural. It’s unmaintainable, but the people who benefit will try everything to keep it.
You can have all the gold in the world, doesn’t mean someone will trade even a gun with a single bullet for it.
On the other hand, there are plenty of people who wouldn’t mind giving you a single bullet for free.
Maybe even more (Shaky hands… happens all the time…)
It’s the legendary metaphor of the all powerful dragon that sits on his mountain of gold
I could see wall street and other traders trading options on the gold under the dragon because it isn’t going anywhere and it’s safe from basically everything.
That market will crash if sufficiently skilled dragon hunters show up though, better ban dragon slaying.
This reminds me of the Shadowrun universe: the cyberpunk megacorporations are literally run by dragons. It’s so apt it’s scary lol.
I feel like the gold is more for using right before the worst case scenarios, in the end, they will have enough firepower, security, and other necessary provisions. After having that, just get a big enough following of people who think you’re the ideal candidate to be seen as a king for them and that’s what the rich will become in the next theoretical cycle of civilization.
that’s what the rich will become in the next theoretical cycle of civilization.
On the surface, it sounds plausible. But if you dig into how the resources you mentioned are produced, the ones which would allow them to become kings, there’s a plot hole. The production can only be done in centralized factories where many workers labour. And the inputs for those factories are done in other factories where many workers labour. As long as such resources are required to maintain these fiefdoms, the rulers power would be constrained by labour power. And we know from history that when enough workers are out of a job, when enough live in poverty, workers organize to stop working and take over the factories. Then they start producing for themselves, instead of the rulers. Then the rulers end up with no guns or other technology needed to enforce their power. What’s worse for the prospects of the future would-be-kings, is that the theory which tells workers how to organize and what to do in such cases has been written, and tested, and it works. And so I think we’re likely gonna see more of that instead of new monarchies formed by former capitalist elites.
Right…
They’ll try to use it for “security” but the fact is that just tells the people they pay one of two things:
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There’s a bunch of gold where you work. And only you and your coworkers have guns
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There’s no more gold so you might as well leave.
There’s a pretty good show with a great premise called Billionaire’s Bunker that gives a third option, the billionaires would really hate that one, but it’s pretty good plan
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It’s a sign of mental illness. If I had $500 million I wouldn’t work another day in my life. You would never hear about me. I would go live somewhere quiet and have everything I could possibly want delivered to me.
To have more wealth than you could possibly spend in the rest of your miserable life, and yet so desperately desire more that you’re willing to break any moral, ethical, or legal framework in your way and make political enemies in order to do so, is a sign of a deeply disturbed individual who not only should not be in charge of anything but should probably be kept away from the general public.
If I had $500 million I wouldn’t work another day in my life. You would never hear about me. I would go live somewhere quiet and have everything I could possibly want delivered to me.
That sounds like it might drive a person crazy too. I hope that after acquiring the financial freedom to choose what to do, I’d find the motivation and energy to choose to do some actually worthwhile things with other people, just staying alert to what needs doing. I agree about these guys being mentally unwell though. They’re stuck in a rut of greed for more money and power, and they lack the perspective, imagination or capacity to appreciate life that they’d need to change course.
Yeah, many people, wealthy or not, do not understand what money is, or any other medium of exchange, and where their value comes from.
On the other hand, it’s not like the world is ending. It’s quite frankly just the most viable alternative for whenever the global reserve currency becomes uncertain. They’re not trying to survive a literal humanity-wiping zombie virus, they’re making sure they can pay their debts when one of the world’s largest superpowers is suddenly violently swept off the map lol
And any historian or economist won’t be remotely surprised, because it quite literally happens all the time.
The imaginary money you invested in gold is worthless if civilization collapsed, so it’s in the rich person’s interests to keep things going so they can pull that investment back.
It’s more likely we are heading to another US recession, hopefully not as bad as the 1930s
If only there was a digital version of gold, that had a permanent record of everyone’s ownership right back to the first nugget of gold, that would be untouchable/secure in a collapse/near collapse scenario. Something that you could bring with you wherever you go in the world, yet no need to physically bring anything with you.
Man I would be investing in that so hard right now.
You mean Bitcoin, the imaginary thing that literally could be destroyed at any moment in time and the rich people use to manipulate their prices and game more money all the time? You mean that type of thing? Honestly gold is way better than investing in that.
Destroying Bitcoin would mean destroying the internet. Money will be the least of your problems when that happens. The price of Bitcoin being manipulated is not something that is inherent to Bitcoin. Anything that gets big enough will attract the big boys and they will try to manipulate anything for a little gain. Bitcoin being transparent, unmanipulatable and portable actually makes it better than gold though.
Major internet outages and blackouts, including across entire countries and continents, happen all the time. Your crypto is worthless numbers on a ledger when that happens.
🤣 every once in a while I read an extra special comment that makes me want to go buy more. This is definitely one of them.
Reads like a bot comment.
Sorry to disappoint!
What? we could easily keep the internet and have no crypto
the only thing that cryptocurrency lacks IMO is inherent value. there needs to be real use-cases for something to have value, at least in my imagination. i fail to see the use-case in cryptocurrency.
edit: Actually, there are some nice use-cases. like, iirc, “doge” uses an algorithm for mining that produces protein-folding-predictions as a side-result, which is useful in biochemistry and molecular biology, which could be used for new drugs for medicine.
Yes lol. But I’m way past the point that people’s opinions of it have any bearing on my decisions.
I’ve had this conversation a million times. You don’t understand Bitcoin, and that’s ok, I don’t mean it as an insult… it’s complicated. I can say that with 100% certainty based on your comments. This just means that there is more for me, at a cheaper price.
Yes there is manipulation going on, you’re not wrong. But where you are veering off track is where you throw out the concept because of it.
Money is manupulated. Constantly. That’s what happens with money. Bitcoin is no different.
Do you understand that Bitcoin has been around for 16 years, has never had an error or security breach (all cases of losing money are due to malicious actors or careless users), can send billions of dollars across the world for literal pennies, has over a TRILLUON dollars of market cap.
Please don’t get stuck in the early days mindset. If Bitcoin was “destroyable” it would have happened long ago, as the threat it poses to fiat based sovereign currencies is huge.
I know I’m not changing any minds, but you can’t say you didn’t have the opportunity. You’re standing in your own way.
Gold is good to invest in too now though! No shade on anyone who does that, just missing a better opportunity.
If this is really your perspective then tone down the condescension. BTC is only viable due to the poor policies of the Trump administration.
Gold has utility. BTC has no usability beyond being a cryptocurrency. I can make things with gold.
Not only that but Bitcoin is very limited as far as where you can spend it not a lot of places take it in order to actually utilize it for the most part you have to trade that in for whatever current value it may be whether it’s $100 or $50,000 depending on how much the price has been manipulated at this point. And just like gold it’s volatile it’s going to all depend on what an arbitrary amount set is worth. And with more regulation Bitcoin becomes more and more useless as far as currency goes. I love Bitcoin I love crypto in general however I also realize how limited it is once you actually try to utilize it any sort of way. If somebody says hey I’m using it for my savings account and then next week that point is worthless because you can’t catch then and nobody’s willing to give you the actual money for it Cool you got a bunch of zeros and ones that are in your name and marked on a ledger someplace.
Gold has utility
not really. IMHO gold is about as useful as aluminum or any other metal, i.e. $10/kg would be justified, but not $70k/kg, which it currently is.
like, $10/kg is real usefulness, the remaining $69990/kg are people’s irrational belief that gold is valuable somehow.
Golds utility as a currency is that it doesn’t tarnish or rust meaning you can keep it around for a long time and use it as an in-between unlike say food, it’s also generally lighter than cloth, manufactured goods, or raw materials. Same generally applies to silver, copper, and copper alloys, though to a lesser extent for copper and it’s derivatives though thats made up for by its recycling capacity and utilities.
Is there any value in being the hardest form of money in existence, objectively 🧐🧐🧐
Edit: the condescension is helpful in the long run. People hate Bitcoin/hate people who invest in Bitcoin are very unlikely to invest in Bitcoin. Therefore more for me, again!
Lol ok. Enjoy bud.
Yes, it is durable, portable and compact. We can all agree on the fact you can make things with it.
Is there any value in something that holds no real utility or real value?
There is tons of utility! Intrinsic value, not like gold no…but utility, absolutely.
Bitcoin has been around for 16 years, has never had an error or security breach (all cases of losing money are due to malicious actors or careless users)
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures
Give me one, single example, just one, of anyone who lost Bitcoin due to an error or issue with the blockchain. Just one please, thank you.
Moving the goal posts.
So you can’t, got it.
How exactly is that not relevant, the fact that you can’t answer this question? Goalposts my ass.
Let’s spice it up a bit! I have some cash in my trading account. Along with some Bitcoin in an exchange wallet.
You’ll just have to take my word, but gentleman’s honor I’m not joking. If you give me one example of a Bitcoin blockchain failure that resulted in loss of Bitcoin (strictly due to Bitcoin itself, no third party) I’ll sell all my exchange Bitcoin and make a $100 donation to a charity of your choice.
If you can’t, I’m buying $500 of Bitcoin with yet deeper conviction that the only ones who are disagreeing with me are people that don’t understand Bitcoin. Like actually understand, not just think and say they understand with Dunning-Kruger confidence.
Edit: I will even post the receipt here (to your charity)
Do you understand that Bitcoin has been around for 16 years, has never had an error or security breach (all cases of losing money are due to malicious actors or careless users), can send billions of dollars across the world for literal pennies, has over a TRILLUON dollars of market cap.
and you’re the one saying others don’t understand Bitcoin. smh.
Please, elaborate
Nah, you’ve refused to elaborate for anyone else in this thread, why would I explain myself for you? You’re literally lying about being a core Bitcoin dev, it’s pointless to even try to have a rational discussion with you. Goodbye!
Lol that’s my point. All of you are bullshitting about understanding Bitcoin, so I’ll bullshit too.
0% chance any of you grumpy yokels could explain how it works. 0% The only people I’ve ever met in my life who could actually explain how it works were investors and enthusiasts.
Every. Single. Person. I’ve ever met online or off who shit talks Bitcoin has never once been able to explain how it works. Because you can’t! If you could, you’d be singing a totally different tune.
Yeah yeah you actually know and you’ve studied it for 35 years and only you have figured out it’s a big scam and yada yada. I’ve seen this for almost a decade now.
Today’s not the day I meet the first person to understand Bitcoin and argue against it.
Yes, the thing that doesn’t work in case of an internet or power outage. Yeah, that’s a good idea to use in societal collapse.
Comments like this must go so hard if you’re stupid.
Dunning-Kruger strikes again.
That thing sounds like it needs a functioning internet and communications system. If society collapses I wouldn’t bet on the blockchain being usable.
And gold? A huge percentage of which people hold non-physically?
It’s almost like you can come up with arguments that NOTHING is safe without a functioning internet and communications system.
So…what’s the difference here?
Do most people have bars of gold sitting around? No. Do most people have gold jewelry like wedding rings and earrings and necklaces? Yes. Can those bars of gold sitting in banks be easily melted down into coins in the event of a society collapse? Yes. Can Bitcoin be usable at all without internet and power? No.
Hmmmm, so in this collapse scenario, there’s no internet or electricity, but somehow the infrastructure for melting gold, and the manufacture of things that require gold, just…keeps on ticking?
My sweet summer child. These things worked before the internet and will work without the internet.
Priceless 🤣
Umm… fire?
You think if we go back to unga bunga times we’re just going to melt down gold and start trading with each other?
That level of apocalypae and we will have way bigger and more urgent problems than trying to reimplement the gold standard in a world without electricity or internet.
Like yes, fire, yeah that’s correct it melts gold. But you really think that’s a strong argument for investing in gold over bitcoin?
I have gold and can transport it. We traded gold before we had an international banking structure. We don’t need electricity or the internet for the trade in gold.
Crypto has no utility. It cannot be transported as it isn’t a physical asset. It cannot be used for any other purpose eg you can’t make a hat out of BTC or ETH. Gold and crypto are not the same when it comes to their usability as a currency.
No they’re not the same, you’re correct. You’re totally incorrect that it has no utility. You honestly just don’t understand how it actually works. I really, strongly suggest understanding
I have spent 15 years following crypto. I promise you that I know how it works. The fact is the fanboys are the ones who are mistaken as so much of that scene is built by people who either know fuckall about currency policy or are scammers.
Objectively false
Just to hold you accountable, kindly give me a brief explanation of how bitcoin works. If you know how it works, you should be able to explain it, and if you use Google to explain it for you, you’ll defeat your own argument. So please, try if you don’t mind?
Gold can exist physically, cryptocurrency cannot.
Just realized this is an extremely poor argument anyway…maybe “does not” instead of “cannot” will be helpful in understanding.
So it’s made of fairy dust, got it
What a wild thing to say about gold when you’re arguing in favor of cryptocurrency.
It would be wild, if that’s what actually happened
Edit: Do you have a charity picked out? Or shall I just go ahead and buy more Bitcoin?
Fairy dust, don’t be ridiculous. It’s Pixie dust.
Let me ask you this. If the hard drive that contains the private keys for your wallet is melted down to a liquid and allowed to cool, what is the value of that hard drive?
What would be the value of a gold coin given the same treatment?
I answered your question so maybe you’ll do me the honour of answering mine.
If someone breaks into your house and steals your gold coins, what value do they have to you?
If it burns down, how much will it cost to recoup all your gold back into a manageable, tradeable form?
Yes, you’re correct. A melted hard drive would not have the same value as a gold coin melted down.
What is your point?
Some See Warning Signs of Civilizational Collapse
Yes. Everyone.
stupid fuckers, buy bottlecaps
My girlfriend often laughs at my bottle cap collection. But I tell her that when the apocalypse comes I’ll be the one laughing!
Just late stage capitalism.
Late stage humanity.
Whenever the pet rock starts to outperform the markets you know you’re in for a bad time.
I work in the mining industry and all of my coworkers are so excited about the price of gold and other precious metals hitting record highs. They say that this will result in all of us becoming wealthy. Bless their hearts…
Their bosses, you’d think the know the difference.
You would think that but no, most of the management is the same. All are happily excited about all the things they are doing to buy. There are a handful of people who are going to be retiring within a year and they are all excited too. One of the older employees has medical issues and requires medication and within the last couple of months he has been unable to get his medication and has had a few moments where he has been hospitalized as a result. And he blames “woke” and “trans liberals” for the problems. The next 4-6 months are going to be interesting to see.
the pollutants from mining gold got into thier heads.
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Nuclear winter sure is one of the ways to combat global warming.
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But the sad thing is Yellowstone won’t pop.
Who cares of global warming when everyone is dead /s
Not very hopeful if you have diseases easily managed in a global society, like epilepsy, but for which you are effectively dead if global medicine production stops.
We are talking billions dead. A new dark age. A total collapse of global civilization. No food, no water, no electricity.
Go out this weekend with nothing but a tent and live in the forest. That’s what you’re about to experience.
Ain’t no “new government” gonna spring up around you bro. Refugee camps have better conditions than where we’re headed.
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And this time without petroleum as a resource.
Millions of Americans are doing that right now (hunting season is upon us, which won’t be a thing is there is no government)
if you are a “have not” start hoarding bullets, they are really good at farming gold from the “haves”
brought to you by Big Marauder
Gold is only valuable in a society. You can’t eat it post apocalypse.
The trick there is that there’s always a new normal that comes, and that food is heavy (per value) and hard to use for hastily arranged or large purchases. It’s a decent guess that you’ll eventually be able to spend your gold coins if fiat becomes worthless.
Buy it during the apocalypse is still my personal plan, though.
Gold is worth more for the same reason stocks are worth more.
The GOP is destroying the dollar.
My maga mom has been trying to get me to buy silver for the last few months and I keep telling her if society ended silver isn’t gonna be worth anything. She got mad and changed the subject 😅
If you’d bought silver (or silver ETFs) a few months ago you would have made a whole bunch of money, and society hasn’t ended yet.
I live paycheck to paycheck so I wouldn’t have made much. A few hundred at most. The stock market is a scam for rich people to live off interest.
if society ended silver isn’t gonna be worth anything
i doubt that.
Go buy precious metals than. Their value is high right now due to trumps trade war.
it would be things like CLEAN WATER, crops, and non-perishable foods. just think about the “200” episode of american dad, roger ended civilization when he was bombarded by particles in an acclerators. everyone either became a cannibal or fled/roam around to gather resources for food/security(while trying to avoid getting eaten by cannibals.
You cant eat metal.
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Really outing yourself as not understanding the argument.
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They are also aware that you can’t eat dollars.
Also, look into how quoting stuff works.
The alternatives are obvious, because it’s items of actual value, like tools, ammo, seeds. Things that can be traded with/for.
My slowly-unravelling Aussie brother let me in on the secret (to buy physical silver) before the weekend. I should have shorted it the second he gave me the tip
Not as money but silver has other uses.
This is why I started hoarding bottle caps.
Also learning how to grow rootcrops.
Rooftop rootcrops, that’s where it’s at.
Mine are just in the yard.
Imagine all Fallout fans group up and actually make the factions from the games. Or make our own factions similar to them
Pretty sure we would win against everybody else collectively in that imaginary scenario
First you get the caps. Then you get the power.
Imagine all Fallout fans group up and actually make the factions
I mean, they [you] sometimes do?
Thats awesome!! Never saw that before
*American civilisational collapse
America has been the most dominant world-wide force in 6 decades. If it collapses, it’s doing a lot of damage, taking other civilizations with it.
I don’t disagree with you, that’s why it’s important for many countries to decouple to minimise the potential aftershock. The question is if politicians in respective countries have the will to do so.
Which will also hasten it’s fall.
Worst case scenario is a World War III. But the lesser worst case scenario is that the rest of the world will tie themselves to China for economic security that the US has dropped. Maybe the more ideal situation is a multipolar world but with more cooperation and getting used to without US as the major economy.
Mainland Chinese industry coupled with Russian mineral resources.
US-American.
Unfortunately most the so-called west is toast when the US fails. From Military to Cloud all US-dominated.
Europe is slowly decoupling from US tech, fortunately.
Dunno if they’re going fast enough, given the current speedrun being madenin the US towards societal meltdown.
“It’s not the house that is on fire, it’s just the kitchen”
Another kitchen will take its place; always have. Now, whether you agree or not, the next kitchen is likely to be China.
And not to completely dismiss your point, but like I said in another comment, it’s important to decouple from the kitchen that is US to minimise the consequences. I don’t want another repeat of the Roaring 20’s and the countries too economically intertwined with the US also collapsed when the Great Depression hit. One of those countries who was dragged down the worst was Germany, when American investors pulled out their investments from the country. That severe aftershock gave rise to the Nazis, and the rest is history.
Fair points
This is great news, my Beanie Baby collection is about to bounce back.
A very useful currency for a collapse at least in the early days is gonna be cigarettes
cigarettes, whiskey, and 9mm.
I am figuring K-Cups might be a currency as well, for those who have a caffeine addiction like myself.
Yup 100%
